Vapes Volcano Hybrid Actual Temperatures vs Dial Temperature

[BudGuy]

I'm a longtime vaper, but new to the MC, have used the Mighty/Mighty+ primarily, but also owned a Volcano classic until recently which I've now upgraded to the Hybrid.

I bought my classic 2nd hand a few years ago, and always noted that it seemed weaker than the digital/Hybrid units I'd used in coffeeshops and definitely weaker than my Mighty/Mighty+ at the same temp setting - for a long time I put it down to the classic just not being as powerful as the digital units, or the airflow from the motor not being as powerful as pulling naturally from the Mighty. However a few weeks ago I was reading about how the volcano classic can be calibrated, so I bought myself a temperature probe and found that the "12 O'clock" setting which should give about 178C was like 140 C, so I calibrated the thermostat until it was close enough to that on the probe, and it then seemed to perform a lot better.

However, I then sold it and upgraded to the Hybrid, and since I had the temperature probe lying around I decided to test the Hybrid to see how accurate it was in comparison, and I'm consistently seeing that the probe temperature is about 20 degrees less than whatever the volcano is set to. So max temp of 230 C is actually measuring more like 207 C, 205 C is more like 185 C, etc. And I've not seen any sources about calibrating the Hybrid, I guess it's not possible since it's digital.

Now I'm trying to work out why that is and whether it's a problem. Hypotheses so far are:

- Cheap inaccurate temperature probe (though it seems reasonable in other tasks). I'm measuring it by placing the probe through the lid of the chamber where you'd normally attach the balloon to get it as close as possible to where the actual herbs are, and with the air on, and waiting several minutes for the probe to stabilise.
- Faulty volcano, should return it. I might contact them anyway and ask them, maybe after I try a few other ways to measure it more accurately.
- Part of the design, i.e. the same way they report higher speeds on the speedometer of a car than its real speed. I know S&B have done research showing that 210 is the "ideal" temperature for medical vaping, and they boast that the "medic" version of the volcano and mighty is limited to 210 C instead of the 230 C we see on the standard volcano. So could it be it's a bit of "marketing" to make the non-medical users think they're having more fun even though, in reality, it still only goes up to about 210 C in reality? It would make sense for a company to not actually want to go beyond what they've proven to be safe/necessary in studies. Or maybe the medic version simply uses more accurate components to measure temperature/has more regulations about accuracy since it's a medical device, so they allow a greater range on the standard Hybrid to make up for its relative inaccuracy? Not sure I haven't compared the manuals for the two yet.

Anyway, just wondering if anyone has input on this, perhaps any Hybrid owners who could measure their own temperatures for comparison, anyone can suggest a more accurate way to measure it or has any opinion on it at all really.

Ultimately, out of all the options I think I prefer the Mighty+ in terms of consistency, vapour matches expectation based on temperature, and taste. The balloons can be a little wasteful as it's difficult to judge how much you need and usually overfill, plus they're a little odd/cumbersome/not very low key, and the sound of that crinkling bag blowing up is a little anxiety inducing. The whip seems to need really high temps to get similar vapour quality to the Mighty, plus the taste seems to be worse probably because you're drawing through 1m of fresh silicone. Maybe it will improve as the whip ages. Anyway, any tips?

 

[LunaDracarys]

I'm a longtime vaper, but new to the MC, have used the Mighty/Mighty+ primarily, but also owned a Volcano classic until recently which I've now upgraded to the Hybrid.

I bought my classic 2nd hand a few years ago, and always noted that it seemed weaker than the digital/Hybrid units I'd used in coffeeshops and definitely weaker than my Mighty/Mighty+ at the same temp setting - for a long time I put it down to the classic just not being as powerful as the digital units, or the airflow from the motor not being as powerful as pulling naturally from the Mighty. However a few weeks ago I was reading about how the volcano classic can be calibrated, so I bought myself a temperature probe and found that the "12 O'clock" setting which should give about 178C was like 140 C, so I calibrated the thermostat until it was close enough to that on the probe, and it then seemed to perform a lot better.

However, I then sold it and upgraded to the Hybrid, and since I had the temperature probe lying around I decided to test the Hybrid to see how accurate it was in comparison, and I'm consistently seeing that the probe temperature is about 20 degrees less than whatever the volcano is set to. So max temp of 230 C is actually measuring more like 207 C, 205 C is more like 185 C, etc. And I've not seen any sources about calibrating the Hybrid, I guess it's not possible since it's digital.

Now I'm trying to work out why that is and whether it's a problem. Hypotheses so far are:

- Cheap inaccurate temperature probe (though it seems reasonable in other tasks). I'm measuring it by placing the probe through the lid of the chamber where you'd normally attach the balloon to get it as close as possible to where the actual herbs are, and with the air on, and waiting several minutes for the probe to stabilise.
- Faulty volcano, should return it. I might contact them anyway and ask them, maybe after I try a few other ways to measure it more accurately.
- Part of the design, i.e. the same way they report higher speeds on the speedometer of a car than its real speed. I know S&B have done research showing that 210 is the "ideal" temperature for medical vaping, and they boast that the "medic" version of the volcano and mighty is limited to 210 C instead of the 230 C we see on the standard volcano. So could it be it's a bit of "marketing" to make the non-medical users think they're having more fun even though, in reality, it still only goes up to about 210 C in reality? It would make sense for a company to not actually want to go beyond what they've proven to be safe/necessary in studies. Or maybe the medic version simply uses more accurate components to measure temperature/has more regulations about accuracy since it's a medical device, so they allow a greater range on the standard Hybrid to make up for its relative inaccuracy? Not sure I haven't compared the manuals for the two yet.

Anyway, just wondering if anyone has input on this, perhaps any Hybrid owners who could measure their own temperatures for comparison, anyone can suggest a more accurate way to measure it or has any opinion on it at all really.

Ultimately, out of all the options I think I prefer the Mighty+ in terms of consistency, vapour matches expectation based on temperature, and taste. The balloons can be a little wasteful as it's difficult to judge how much you need and usually overfill, plus they're a little odd/cumbersome/not very low key, and the sound of that crinkling bag blowing up is a little anxiety inducing. The whip seems to need really high temps to get similar vapour quality to the Mighty, plus the taste seems to be worse probably because you're drawing through 1m of fresh silicone. Maybe it will improve as the whip ages. Anyway, any tips?

Lovely post and informative post, I watch Lee from tabletopbong stated that Arizer XQ2 goes even higher than the Volcano , he did a few hacks about the volcano as well.

 

[BudGuy]

Lovely post and informative post, I watch Lee from tabletopbong stated that Arizer XQ2 goes even higher than the Volcano , he did a few hacks about the volcano as well.

I mean the number displayed on the unit certainly goes higher on the Arizer, and that probably means the temperature at the heating element itself is actually higher, but whether or not it means the temperature at the position of the flower is actually higher, I would doubt.

I'm not exactly sure where the temperature probe is in both devices, but I would think that since the Volcano Hybrid uses conduction all the way into the heating chamber, that the temp probe might be taking the temp from there as well. Whereas the Arizer is all glass for the last 40-50 mm of the air's journey before it reaches the flower, so with the Arizer there's at least 50 mm of potential cooling that can't possibly be measured. So it wouldn't surprise me if the Arizer also tops out at about 210-230 like the Volcano at the actual flower position in reality.

to be honest, there's no need to ever go higher than that. Storz and Bickel's studies show that if you vape a bag at 210 Celsius, the 2nd bag has no appreciable THC at all. 260 degrees would do nothing but increase the risk of irritation with almost no additional THC to make up for it.

I personally think it should be standardised that all vapourisers display the temperature AT THE FLOWER, even if that requires a mathematical estimation in the case of designs like the Arizer where it can't be measured directly. Afterall, any studies done on vapourisation would normally be done at an actual measured temperature, so if patients are to be able to put the information from studies into practice across any devices, they should be standardised. It's not acceptable that 260 on an Arizer means 230 on a Volcano and actually means 215 in actual reality.

 

[OldMan]

I just got my first Volcano Hybrid. I followed all the directions and judging from the almost invisible vapor in the bag suspected the heat was NOT what the LED said it was. I removed the filling chamber cylinder, and put the "chimney" back on and ran the machine for a while with heat and fan on. Then I put an instant read thermometer down the chimney (where the bag would attach) into the filling chamber housing, and wow! Way off. Here are a few of my readings: LED 185C, actual 156C; LED 203C, actual 167C; LED 212C, actual 185C; LED 220C, actual 195C. I find this inaccuracy and inconsistency disturbing. I have read many warnings that vaping over 200C becomes less healthy. I feel very uncomfortable setting the machine to 212C, and having to trust that it is the desired 185C. I wish there was some way to recalibrate this thing.

 

[OldMan]

Or is down the "chimney" into the filling chamber housing that holds the filling chamber cylinder the wrong place to take the temperature? That IS where the weed is.

 

[BudGuy]

I just got my first Volcano Hybrid. I followed all the directions and judging from the almost invisible vapor in the bag suspected the heat was NOT what the LED said it was. I removed the filling chamber cylinder, and put the "chimney" back on and ran the machine for a while with heat and fan on. Then I put an instant read thermometer down the chimney (where the bag would attach) into the filling chamber housing, and wow! Way off. Here are a few of my readings: LED 185C, actual 156C; LED 203C, actual 167C; LED 212C, actual 185C; LED 220C, actual 195C. I find this inaccuracy and inconsistency disturbing. I have read many warnings that vaping over 200C becomes less healthy. I feel very uncomfortable setting the machine to 212C, and having to trust that it is the desired 185C. I wish there was some way to recalibrate this thing.

I bought a more sophisticated temperature measurement device and the results were a lot closer to the digital readings, though still 5-10 short, so I suspect it's primarily the inaccuracy of your measurement device that's the main culprit.

Plus I think the Volcano is probably maintaining the temperature of the heating element itself at whatever you set, but some cooling will occur by the time the air reaches the flower in the chamber, although this should cause less of a difference in the Hybrid with its conduction/convection combo compared to the classic which is just convection.

And given how quickly the Volcano absolutely toasts any flower at 200-210, much more than the Mighty+ toasts it at the same temp settings, I'm inclined to believe the Hybrid's actual temp is pretty much where it's supposed to be.

But having said that, I do still find the vapour thinner and whisper on say 185 on the Volcano vs 185 on the Mighty+. But I guess that could be down to other factors like the size of the heat chamber, how well the flower is compacted for heat conduction, etc.

 

[OldMan]

I have checked the accuracy of my temperature reading device many times. It is an instant read probe. One of the best ways to check a probe is in boiling water, which, at sea-level, will always be 100C/221F. My probe is spot on. When using multiple probes that pass the boiling water test, and putting them all in other substances at different temperatures, my probe is always consistent with the others. So, I seriously doubt that the problem lies with the probe.

Since my original post, I have done some empirical testing of my Volcano's temperatures. The good news is that I seem to be getting consistent temperatures. When set to 185C, the actual temperature in the filling chamber housing is 156C. That produces a very mild, almost transparent vapor, which is consistent with a 156C vapor. I like to vape at 180-185C. I can hit 185C dead on by setting the temperature to 220C, removing the filling chamber cylinder, putting the "chimney" back on and turning on the fan. When it registers 220C, I run it for exactly four minutes (it will be 185C in the chamber). Then I take off the chimney, insert the charged filling chamber cylinder and attach the "chimney." After a few seconds, I can see the vapor and attach the bag. It fills with a medium- light fog, exactly what one might expect with 180-185C. The vapor has a great flavor and is relatively mild compared to a vapor produced at a much higher temperature, again, what one would expect for a vapor produced at 180-185C.

Above, I mentioned that at 220, I was getting 195C in the chamber. But I was running it a long time for those tests and the temperature seems to creep up as it is run for a long period. If I drop in the cylinder and attach the bag just as it reaches 184-185C in the chamber (220C on the LED), the bag fills before getting much hotter, and I get a satisfying vapor.

I admit that this is highly annoying as I would expect better for what I paid, but I live with it. As long as I can get consistent results, it works fine for me. Some people might say to return it to S&B, but that's a hardship for me. I live in Thailand. You paid plenty for your Volcano, but I probably paid nearly double to have it sent to a friend in the US, then have him ship it here, and then paid import duty and VAT tax. If I were to ship it back, it would cost me a bundle. Then, when returned to my friend, I would have to pay shipping again to get it back here. Thai Customs would more than likely tax me again, despite it being declared as a repair. Just not worth it. But like I said, I like 180-185 and am getting that, so end of story. I just hope it keeps working for many years. I would like to also get a Venti, but have to go through all that import business again.

Of course if you are going to visit Thailand, you could carry it for me . . .

 

[BudGuy]

I have checked the accuracy of my temperature reading device many times. It is an instant read probe. One of the best ways to check a probe is in boiling water, which, at sea-level, will always be 100C/221F. My probe is spot on. When using multiple probes that pass the boiling water test, and putting them all in other substances at different temperatures, my probe is always consistent with the others. So, I seriously doubt that the problem lies with the probe.

Since my original post, I have done some empirical testing of my Volcano's temperatures. The good news is that I seem to be getting consistent temperatures. When set to 185C, the actual temperature in the filling chamber housing is 156C. That produces a very mild, almost transparent vapor, which is consistent with a 156C vapor. I like to vape at 180-185C. I can hit 185C dead on by setting the temperature to 220C, removing the filling chamber cylinder, putting the "chimney" back on and turning on the fan. When it registers 220C, I run it for exactly four minutes (it will be 185C in the chamber). Then I take off the chimney, insert the charged filling chamber cylinder and attach the "chimney." After a few seconds, I can see the vapor and attach the bag. It fills with a medium- light fog, exactly what one might expect with 180-185C. The vapor has a great flavor and is relatively mild compared to a vapor produced at a much higher temperature, again, what one would expect for a vapor produced at 180-185C.

Above, I mentioned that at 220, I was getting 195C in the chamber. But I was running it a long time for those tests and the temperature seems to creep up as it is run for a long period. If I drop in the cylinder and attach the bag just as it reaches 184-185C in the chamber (220C on the LED), the bag fills before getting much hotter, and I get a satisfying vapor.

I admit that this is highly annoying as I would expect better for what I paid, but I live with it. As long as I can get consistent results, it works fine for me. Some people might say to return it to S&B, but that's a hardship for me. I live in Thailand. You paid plenty for your Volcano, but I probably paid nearly double to have it sent to a friend in the US, then have him ship it here, and then paid import duty and VAT tax. If I were to ship it back, it would cost me a bundle. Then, when returned to my friend, I would have to pay shipping again to get it back here. Thai Customs would more than likely tax me again, despite it being declared as a repair. Just not worth it. But like I said, I like 180-185 and am getting that, so end of story. I just hope it keeps working for many years. I would like to also get a Venti, but have to go through all that import business again.

Of course if you are going to visit Thailand, you could carry it for me . . .

Yes, but those probes are always going to be more accurate when measuring a liquid that it's submerged in than when measuring air temperatures. Those probes are mainly designed for measuring meat/liquid temperatures, not gas temperatures which often requires a different strategy.

And even if the temps in the chamber were 10-20 degree below the screen readout, I'm till not sure that would indicate any sort of fault, because I'm not sure if S&B are CLAIMING that the temperature on the display = the temperature in the chamber - it may be their intention that the temp on the display = the temp of the ceramic heating element itself, in which case a few degree drop between the heating element and the chamber would be expected. It would be nice if they'd made it clear in the manual what the readout is trying to tell you precisely and what its acceptable errors are.

 

[OldMan]

All I can tell you is that, not only did I measure the temps in the chamber, but when I set this device to 220C and wait the precribed period s mentioned above, I get xactly the vapor I would expect from a 180-185C vaporization chamber. You mention you like the higher temperatures. I have tried them and don;t like it. Kind of harsh and cough inducing. I am setting my machine to 220C and not getting that.

You are right about probes being more reliable submersed in liquid, but when its in the chamber constantly with the fan on, it should be pretty accurate. But I tell you what. I have one of those laser temperature guns. I'll calibrate it for the aluminum material in the chamber and check the temp of the chambe right before and right after vaporizing some bud. I'll report back.

I will add that S&B certainly should use technology such that the temperature on the display = the temperature in the chamber , as it is the temperature in the chamber that vaporizes the bud. It is well known how a bud vaporizes at various temperatures produce various effects and when paying so much for a device, one should be able to expect accuracy in this regard.

 

[BudGuy]

All I can tell you is that, not only did I measure the temps in the chamber, but when I set this device to 220C and wait the precribed period s mentioned above, I get xactly the vapor I would expect from a 180-185C vaporization chamber. You mention you like the higher temperatures. I have tried them and don;t like it. Kind of harsh and cough inducing. I am setting my machine to 220C and not getting that.

You are right about probes being more reliable submersed in liquid, but when its in the chamber constantly with the fan on, it should be pretty accurate. But I tell you what. I have one of those laser temperature guns. I'll calibrate it for the aluminum material in the chamber and check the temp of the chambe right before and right after vaporizing some bud. I'll report back.

I will add that S&B certainly should use technology such that the temperature on the display = the temperature in the chamber , as it is the temperature in the chamber that vaporizes the bud. It is well known how a bud vaporizes at various temperatures produce various effects and when paying so much for a device, one should be able to expect accuracy in this regard.

Fair enough. My Volcano produces a slightly thinner vapour than I'd expect at 180-185 compared to the Mighty+, but not by a huge amount and it seems to depend on the bud, yet at 210 my Volcano absolutely toasts the bud very quickly (which can be fine if you just want to very quickly consume your dose in a couple of puffs, but in most cases it's way too much heat) to a degree which the Mighty+ does not.

Unfortunately the only way to actually put the chamber temperature on screen accurately would be to put the thermocouple in the chamber itself, and that's going to be impractical and costly for various reasons. They could I suppose do a calculation from the heating element temp to estimate the chamber temp, but that's not always going to be accurate either as it would depend on environmental temperature, how clean your chamber is, how packed you have it, etc. And if you compare it to competitors like the Arizers which have like 10cm between the heating element and the bud with zero conduction and have a temp range all the way up to 260 to compensate for the resulting heat losses, the volcano is probably closest to accurate on the market.

But yeah, not sure what their design is. If they're displaying the heating element temp only instead of taking a reading from something in thermal contact with the chamber, they're probably missing a trick.