Flower Help me understand the difference please

[cornucopia]

Hi, I am struggling to understand why some flower strains don’t help my pain & also why some make me feel like I’ve had a strong coffee!

Here’s what I’ve tried month by month so far
1. Delahaze, little to no pain relief and strong coffee effects.
2.royal moby, no pain relief & milder coffee effects.
3. Modified gas, minor pain relief when combined with oil, a bit heady but no coffee effects.
4. Unicorn cake, minor pain relief when combined with oil, relaxed head and body.
5. Lot420 orange cake, very good pain relief but very strong coffee effects.

I would really appreciate some help as I feel like every month I am wasting money.

It definitely seems that Sativa doesn’t suit me.

Is it the Pinene in the OC that I need for pain? But on lot 420 website it said it was Indica leaning but then on Reddit allot of people say it’s Sativa and then lot420 said the attachment which really confused me !

 

[BudGuy]

Unfortunately to answer a question like "which constituents of medical cannabis are responsible for effect x?" with any degree of statistical significance requires a large scale, double blind controlled medical trial involving a large number of participants tracked over a reasonable period of time using highly purified and controlled forms of the thousands of potentially active compounds in medical cannabis... no-one has ever successfully designed such a study let alone conducted it.

So that means we're all sort of left doing our own version of the study with a cohort size of 1, zero objectivity, no blind or control group or or any other form of bias control, using only the handful of cannabis products available to us at any one time and with no real ability to break it down into its constituents.

The only way to do it is to keep trying different medications until you land on the ones that work for you subjectively and hope it's not just an expensive placebo when it does work! It's expensive and can be a long drawn out process, but it's the only way. But at least it does absolve you of the job of having to become an world-leading organic chemist or a botanist to understand all the underlying science of medical cannabis. You're the patient, not the doctor or the pharmacist, you don't need to understand the medicine at a chemical level - and most of them don't either anyway!

 

[cornucopia]

Sorry i didn’t realise.

Maybe MC is not the solution I need

 

[GrownHealth]

Sorry i didn’t realise.

Maybe MC is not the solution I need

No I'm sure it will help and from your time here and reading what strains have had certain effects the profile that stands out to me is Kush as in Kush strains as they often give pain patients the required relief whilst at the same time none of the coffee type effects and a more relaxed feel so I certainly wouldn't say MC is not for you and it's just about finding a strain or two that work and then maybe trying to expand knowledge on what they have in common etc

I would certainly try a couple of Kush Type strains if I was you before thinking it is not the right medicine

 

[joint_account]

Sorry i didn’t realise.

Maybe MC is not the solution I need

A Lot of us tend to look at genetics and available terpene information.

For example, If you notice Girl Scout Cookies is effective for your needs then looking at it's lineage may give clues as to other useful strains.

So you could look at OG Kush or F1 Durban as potential options as these are parents.

Or you could look at GMO Cookies which is a cross of Chemdawg and Girl Scout Cookies.

Indica Vs Sativa doesn't mean much anymore, everything is a Hybrid for the most part and it all depends on that particular breeder as to whether the parent cross leans more Sativa or Indica.

Imo it's not a useful classification.

You can also look at terpenes. So let's say you really enjoyed Moby Dick and Delahaze. Well They're both quite heavy on Terpinolene. This can then lead you to other strains high in Terpinolene like High Silver.

It's very much an imperfect science but it's the only logical way patients can figure out what works for them.

 

[cornucopia]

Thank you for your replies.

I think my discomfort and the anxiety of trying this months 2 new strains is just getting ontop of me the past few days…. I’ll try looking at it again tomorrow

 

[joint_account]

A Lot of us tend to look at genetics and available terpene information.

For example, If you notice Girl Scout Cookies is effective for your needs then looking at it's lineage may give clues as to other useful strains.

So you could look at OG Kush or F1 Durban as potential options as these are parents.

Or you could look at GMO Cookies which is a cross of Chemdawg and Girl Scout Cookies.

Indica Vs Sativa doesn't mean much anymore, everything is a Hybrid for the most part and it all depends on that particular breeder as to whether the parent cross leans more Sativa or Indica.

Imo it's not a useful classification.

You can also look at terpenes. So let's say you really enjoyed Moby Dick and Delahaze. Well They're both quite heavy on Terpinolene. This can then lead you to other strains high in Terpinolene like High Silver.

It's very much an imperfect science but it's the only logical way patients can figure out what works for them.

Just to add on to my last point about the terpenes.

In this example you loved Moby Dick and Delahaze. So if you go to their MedBud profiles and look at the terp wheel, you can click on the Terpinolene and see a list of strains which contain it. Its easier than slaving through each product wheel.

 

[cornucopia]

Just to add on to my last point about the terpenes.

In this example you loved Moby Dick and Delahaze. So if you go to their MedBud profiles and look at the terp wheel, you can click on the Terpinolene and see a list of strains which contain it. Its easier than slaving through each product wheel.

Thanks, but no I didn’t like delahaze or royal moby as I didn’t like the racy feeling and they gave no pain relief.

The only one so far that has really reduced my pain is OC but even though I had my regular dosing cap dose at my normal temperature the effects were like having an espresso shot. Now some of that could have been me getting wound up about trying it but not all of it.

 

[node]

Thanks, but no I didn’t like delahaze or royal moby as I didn’t like the racy feeling and they gave no pain relief.

The only one so far that has really reduced my pain is OC but even though I had my regular dosing cap dose at my normal temperature the effects were like having an espresso shot. Now some of that could have been me getting wound up about trying it but not all of it.

I'm sure we have other pain patients here who can help you. Copy the best value strains from them that work - try those first.

 

[cornucopia]

I'm sure we have other pain patients here who can help you. Copy the best value strains from them that work - try those first.

Thanks, i suppose that’s another aspect of my frustration as i read lots on here & on discord & Reddit and the majority of time the strain that’s getting recommended isn’t available from my clinic which has just 46 flowers available, half of which have a delivery time of 7-10+ days.

 

[node]

Thanks, i suppose that’s another aspect of my frustration as i read lots on here & on discord & Reddit and the majority of time the strain that’s getting recommended isn’t available from my clinic which has just 46 flowers available, half of which have a delivery time of 7-10+ days.

I feel you mate, ofc quickest+best way is to switch clinic but its up to you.

 

[joint_account]

Thanks, i suppose that’s another aspect of my frustration as i read lots on here & on discord & Reddit and the majority of time the strain that’s getting recommended isn’t available from my clinic which has just 46 flowers available, half of which have a delivery time of 7-10+ days.

There is a chap who makes videos called Pain Patient who is such a knowledgeable guy when it comes to cannabis.

He grows and all sorts so has a really deep understanding of the plant itself and as a pain patient he really understands the effects he needs.

Because he's grown he's also very critical of the state of MC and to earn a decent review from him it needs to be top tier flower.

I'm not a pain patient but generally consider is gardening opinions to be some of the best out there.

Pain Patient

UK medical cannabis patient - Videos are for 18 years or over. 🔞

youtube.com

 

[JDVaper]

Sorry i didn’t realise.

Maybe MC is not the solution I need

It's very frustrating and I've only had my first prescription which was pants x3 strains ! I'm the same as you and the Haze side of things has that coffee effect on me to o! I'm also confused more than ever now knowing what I do or don't know about Indicas and Sativas, arrrrgghhhh!!!!
Very frustrating as had to go back to the BM to ensure I had what I really needed to help me sleep and costing me considerably more than I'd planned this month.! My next consultation person will be informed just how opposite an effect I got from the strains first prescribed..
Keep on keeping on, but be honest with your prescriber. You always have the option to move clinics.

 

[BudGuy]

It's very frustrating and I've only had my first prescription which was pants x3 strains ! I'm the same as you and the Haze side of things has that coffee effect on me to o! I'm also confused more than ever now knowing what I do or don't know about Indicas and Sativas, arrrrgghhhh!!!!
Very frustrating as had to go back to the BM to ensure I had what I really needed to help me sleep and costing me considerably more than I'd planned this month.! My next consultation person will be informed just how opposite an effect I got from the strains first prescribed..
Keep on keeping on, but be honest with your prescriber. You always have the option to move clinics.

Like I said before, Indica vs Sativa is primarily a botanical categorisation with not much definitive impact on effects. Some Indicas will give you the coffee feeling too, some Sativas will knock you out for bed, and many are incorrectly labelled all over the market (precisely because there's no real link between the classification and effects). You can ignore it for all intents and purposes unless you happen to find in your own experience that Sativa or Indica always does something you don't like, but its your own experience that's king, not the botanical classification.

 

[JDVaper]

Like I said before, Indica vs Sativa is primarily a botanical categorisation with not much definitive impact on effects. Some Indicas will give you the coffee feeling too, some Sativas will knock you out for bed, and many are incorrectly labelled all over the market (precisely because there's no real link between the classification and effects). You can ignore it for all intents and purposes unless you happen to find in your own experience that Sativa or Indica always does something you don't like, but its your own experience that's king, not the botanical classification.

I there a list anywhere that show Sativa strains that put you to sleep by chance?

 

[BudGuy]

Sorry i didn’t realise.

Maybe MC is not the solution I need

Oh I didn't mean to put you off the idea entirely, just letting you know that there isn't really a sure-fire way of arriving at the right medicine for you on the first couple of tries, but that's often also the case with any other medicine. Most people are very lucky if the first painkiller they get prescribed on the NHS does the trick, both in terms of strength and unwanted side effects. The exploratory phase is part of the process for any medication for a chronic condition really.

Particularly in the realm of pain medications, medical cannabis certainly has one of the lowest negative side-effect profiles compared to other options if you can get it right, with some of the lowest potentials for physical addiction, etc, so it's well worth exploring if there are aspects of other therapies you want to avoid, frustrating though it can be.

 

[williemed]

Generally speaking - Sativa = coffee/energy/mind, Indica = sleepy/pain relief/body. With heavily bred Hybrids these days it gets a little wooly, but if you find a 100% Indica like Black Triangle that would be a good place to start. I think prescribers should really offer this initially, a pure Sativa and a pure Indica, just so new patients get a little understanding of the differences. Then you can start thinking about Hybrids which are quite complex, and along with the uniqueness of each infdicual patient, their endocannabinoid systems, symptoms, etc, it can take some trial and error to find what works for you. But I feel if you get nothing from a pure Indica, assuming it is of therapeutic quality, there is nothing to get as it were. Adding Sativa into the mix can only add more coffee so to speak. The body relaxation, sedation, is all from Indica parentage. This is debated but I have yet to find a true Indica that induces any feeling of alertness, energy, jitters, or anything even remotely coffee like, unless it is not ripe of course but that is another discussion entirely and so far I have yet to see anything on medical that is truly underripe as they are lab tested and are in the worst cases aiming for peak THC production which usually occurs right at the start of the harvest window. Not ideal for medicine but shouldn't produce any undesired effects.

 

[williemed]

Like I said before, Indica vs Sativa is primarily a botanical categorisation with not much definitive impact on effects. Some Indicas will give you the coffee feeling too, some Sativas will knock you out for bed, and many are incorrectly labelled all over the market (precisely because there's no real link between the classification and effects). You can ignore it for all intents and purposes unless you happen to find in your own experience that Sativa or Indica always does something you don't like, but its your own experience that's king, not the botanical classification.

Which Indica gives the coffee feeling bro? 'Indica Hybrid' Hybrids maybe, but true Indica? It would be news to me but I love to learn!

 

[joint_account]

I there a list anywhere that show Sativa strains that put you to sleep by chance?

Not really but...

Myrcene is a big boy for relaxation.
Linalool is great for calming the mind.
Caryophyllene is good for stress relief

^^^ click on any of the linked terpenes and it will show other strains with it. Scan all 3 and if there's any that pop up consistently that is where I would start..

Its not an exact science because terpenes interact with eachother differently for a host of reasons but it can be a good place to start.

My personal rec for sleep is Chapel of Love, it's sourdough but less racy.

 

[BudGuy]

Which Indica gives the coffee feeling bro? 'Indica Hybrid' Hybrids maybe, but true Indica? It would be news to me but I love to learn!

Well, to be fair there's only one MC strain available at the moment claiming to be a true Indica which is Hindu Kush... which intrigued me but it was terribly reviewed, so truth is I haven't personally tried any confirmed true Indicas. But most people don't/won't - almost everything in the MC world is a Hybrid of a Hybrid of a Hybrid, and you can probably take any claims of true Indicas/landraces etc with a pinch of salt.

So yeah, for all intents and purposes you're going to be dealing with mostly Hybrids, meaning it's not going to be uncommon to come across a "Sativa Hybrid" that feels like a traditional Indica or the inverse.

If MedBud is to be trusted over Curaleaf's own packaging and Leafly's description, then the GG4 is a Sativa Hybrid that Curaleaf classify as a night-time strain and which did work for me for night-time (not a heavy knockout, but suitable sedative for me anyway). But who to trust on whether it's 60/40 or 40/60 in favour of Indica? Who knows.